Aircraft AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive

166
Aircraft AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive

As we have said repeatedly, in modern military conflicts, air attack weapons (AOS) are the cornerstone that determines the course of hostilities. The air force (Air Force) shows high efficiency - and the conflict occurs, as they say, "with little blood and on foreign territory", the Air Force has problems - and now we get a classic ground operation stretched out in time with numerous victims.

One of the most important factors determining the effectiveness of the Air Force fulfilling its tasks, in particular, solving the problem of seizing air supremacy, is the availability of modern airborne early warning and control aircraft (AWACS). And here the Russian Air Force has certain problems.



These problems are expressed both in the quantity and quality of AWACS aircraft available to the Russian Air Force. At the moment, according to open data, there are 3 AWACS A-50 and 6 AWACS A-50U aircraft in service. And if the AWACS A-50U aircraft received an updated radar complex (RLC) during the modernization in the early 2000s, the Bumblebee radar of the A-50 aircraft was developed back in the 80s of the twentieth century.


Aircraft AWACS A-50

Of course, the characteristics of the radars of these aircraft are classified, but it can be assumed that AWACS A-50 aircraft have problems with detecting small and inconspicuous targets against the background of the earth's surface, which, combined with a small number of these vehicles in the troops, allows the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) to periodically strike deep into Russian territory. There is a threat that the military-industrial complex (DIC) of Ukraine will be able to ensure the production and / or purchase of a significant number of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - long-range kamikazes like the Russian-Iranian UAV "Geran-2" and deliver them a massive strike on objects, located in the strategic rear of the Russian Federation.

The development of the new AWACS aircraft A-100 "Premier" was greatly delayed, in addition, there is no doubt that the cost of purchasing and operating this machine will be very high, which means that the Russian Air Force will not have many of them, and they will be operated extremely limited.


Aircraft AWACS A-100 "Premier"

At the same time, the United States is armed with 31 units of the constantly modernized AWACS aircraft Boeing E-3 Sentry. Another 7 of these machines are in the UK, 4 in France and 17 units are on the balance sheet of NATO. To replace this fairly modern machine, the United States is already planning to purchase a new Boeing E-7A AWACS aircraft. It is assumed that the total number of purchased E-7A AWACS aircraft will be 26 vehicles, while 16 E-3 Sentry aircraft are planned to be withdrawn from the US Air Force. Gradually, the new E-7A AWACS aircraft will replace both the E-3 Sentry, which are available to the US allies, and which are on the balance sheet of NATO.


Aircraft AWACS Boeing E-3 Sentry


Aircraft AWACS Boeing E-7A

In addition to the E-3 Sentry and the E-7A aircraft that is being prepared to replace it, the US armed forces have another interesting vehicle - the Grumman E-2C Hawkeye carrier-based AWACS aircraft. The main thing about the E-2C Hawkeye is that it costs several times less than the E-3 Sentry (according to some sources, its cost is 3-5 times lower), so for the US Navy it was built 139 AWACS E-2C Hawkeye aircraft. Currently, the development of a new aircraft E-2D of the Hawkeye family is underway.


Aircraft AWACS E-2C "Hawkeye"

Such a number of AWACS aircraft allows the United States and NATO countries to provide dense radar coverage in the combat zone, tracking not only aircraft, helicopters, cruise and ballistic missiles, but also launches of anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM), as well as the movement of many other objects in the air .

It cannot be ruled out that AWACS aircraft of NATO countries are capable of detecting the launch and tracking the trajectory of multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) and even artillery shells. It also talks about the possibility of tracking ground / surface targets by AWACS aircraft, as well as the possibility of jamming enemy ground-based radars.

Thus, AWACS aircraft are a highly effective tool of the air force, which largely determines the success aviation in the theater of operations (TVD). The situation with the presence of the Russian Air Force AWACS aircraft must be corrected as soon as possible, while it should be understood that the completion of the development of the AWACS A-100 Premier aircraft, most likely, will not help us with this.

Which AWACS aircraft is needed by the Russian Air Force?


A promising Russian AWACS aircraft should have the following features:

– the minimum cost of acquisition and operation;
– minimum terms of development and launch in a series;
- a fairly modern radar complex;
- the possibility of a long stay in the air.

How to combine it? After all, it is known that out of the three criteria - cheap, fast, high quality, only two can be selected at the same time?

The only possible way out is to sacrifice quality and use components that are currently mass-produced (or those that are as close as possible to mass production) to build a promising AWACS aircraft. Such a solution will be inferior to specialized platforms, but can be produced in much larger quantities and operated without much regard for the cost of a flight hour.

Ideally, we need a light AWACS aircraft in the E-2C Hawkeye weight category, made on the basis of a reliable, economical aircraft with a low cost per flight hour, equipped with a serial radar system designed for installation on modern combat aircraft.

Platform Selection


Here a problem arises - the fact is that now we simply do not have a ready-made, mass-produced aircraft comparable in terms of performance characteristics (TTX) with the E-2C Hawkeye. Previously, An-26, An-72, An-140 aircraft could claim this role, the choice of which, for obvious reasons, is impossible.

In Russia, aircraft are being developed to replace them - Il-112V and Il-114. The development of the Il-112V aircraft was suspended, although it was initially assumed that the contract for the first batch of 35 Il-112V aircraft would be signed as early as 2017. There is a possibility that the project can be resumed.


IL-112V

The turboprop short-haul (regional) passenger aircraft Il-114 was developed in the 1980s by the Ilyushin Design Bureau and produced in the amount of only 20 units, at the present time a completely “russified” Il-114-300 aircraft has been developed and is being tested (the first flight of the Il-114 -300 took place on December 16, 2020),

Thus, three options can be considered:

- the first option is to bring the Il-112V aircraft to mind, especially since, apparently, this project was in a fairly high degree of readiness;

- the second option - Il-114-300, which is supposed to be produced at the facilities of VASO PJSC and the MiG corporation in the amount of about 12 vehicles per year.


IL-114-300

- The third option is to use the Tu-204/214 aircraft, which is already used as a base for relay aircraft, aircraft of integrated radar, radio engineering and optical-electronic reconnaissance, aircraft of the Open Skies program. Also, on the basis of the Tu-204/214, it was planned to create an anti-submarine aircraft and other modifications of cargo and passenger aircraft.


Tu-214R integrated radar, radio engineering and optical-electronic reconnaissance aircraft

It seems that the military had some complaints about the Tu-204/214, but there is no time for whims, the important thing is that this machine is well developed and is mass-produced. True, there is a problem - in connection with the departure of Boeing and Airbus from the Russian market, Russian air carriers will need a lot of medium-haul civil aircraft, so the Tu-204/214 production lines will be fully loaded, at least until expand mass production of the MS-21 airliner.

Based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that the optimal platform for a promising light AWACS aircraft is the Il-114 turboprop aircraft, and the Tu-204/214 aircraft can be considered as a fallback in case of problems with the mass production of the Il-114.

Next, it is necessary to integrate a suitable radar complex onto the selected platform.

Radar complex


Perhaps it will be even more difficult with him - it is unlikely that it will be possible to create a new radar in an acceptable time frame. What can be used from the existing backlog?

We immediately discard the radar of the A-100 aircraft - on a smaller platform than the IL-76, it will not be put, most likely, even in a simplified form, and it is not known when it will be finalized to mass production.

Recently, there has been a tendency to create AWACS aircraft with non-rotating antennas located along the hull or in the "ridge" above the fuselage. Potentially, the option of equipping the selected carrier aircraft with two serial modified radar stations (RLS) placed conformally onboard or in a special compartment above the fuselage can be considered.


Brazilian-Israeli AWACS aircraft P600 AEW for countries with a limited military budget

The best performance could be shown by the H0Z6 Belka radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR) from the fifth generation Su-57 fighter, but it is not clear whether the specified complex was brought to the required degree of readiness, and also what is its cost and in what quantities it can to be produced - we should never forget about the principle of "quickly and inexpensively".

As the main option, one can consider the H035 Irbis radar with a passive phased antenna array (PFAR), which is installed on mass-produced Su-35 multifunctional fighters and has fairly high performance. When adapting the N0Z5 Irbis radar for use on an AWACS aircraft, options for improving its efficiency can be considered, in particular:

– increase in radiation power while providing improved cooling;

– increase in the number of PFAR elements;

- placement and sharing of two antennas from one side or four antennas from two sides, of course, provided that such placement is possible, that the radars will not interfere with each other, and their joint operation will lead to an increase in the performance characteristics of the complex as a whole.


Antenna RLC "Irbis"

Operators' workplaces can also be built on the basis of modified Su-35 fighter pilots' workplaces, of course, taking into account the specifics of the aircraft, taking into account the need to ensure long patrols.

Conclusions


What could be the time frame for the development of a promising Russian light AWACS aircraft in the format discussed in this material?

Presumably, two to three years for development, then mass production at a rate of two to four cars a year.

Does it fit into the concepts of "fast" and "a lot"?

Yes, it's fast enough, since there seem to be no alternatives. If it is possible to put the AWACS A-100 aircraft into series earlier, then this would be great, but this should by no means cancel the development of a light, cheap and economical AWACS aircraft in operation. As for “a lot”, two or four cars a year is 20-40 cars in 10 years, and the Russian Air Force has never had so many AWACS aircraft.

How effective will the indicated light AWACS aircraft be?

It will be as effective as the N035 Irbis radar, and it is stated that it is very good, especially since its capabilities can potentially be improved as part of a more lifting platform and large volumes of equipment compartments.


Estimated on-board placement of conformal antennas of the Irbis radar on the Il-114-300 aircraft

How many of these machines does the Russian Air Force need?

And how many of them do not produce - it will still be small. The factor limiting the production of the proposed light AWACS aircraft can only be the emergence of a new development within the framework of the concept of building an inexpensive, mass-produced and efficient AWACS aircraft, which can be produced in large series and used without regard to the cost of a flight hour.
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  1. +37
    13 May 2023 04: 31
    There have always been problems with AWACS aircraft in Russia, and they have been writing and talking about this for many years. But things don't go beyond talk.
    1. +33
      13 May 2023 05: 08
      Aircraft AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive
      buy from the Chinese. nothing else comes to mind.
      1. +23
        13 May 2023 05: 57
        Until last year, it was necessary to take care of this, but then, with someone’s suggestion, the VSU was considered an underarmy .. And now, the old solution is an apparatus lighter than air .. a semi-rigid or rigid cylinder with hydrogen-helium refueling with a carrying capacity of 80-160 tons-hundred-meter, inconspicuous in the radio range, a car with almost unlimited stay in position. And also, due to the specifics of use, ICAO certification is not needed
        1. +28
          13 May 2023 10: 12
          Quote: Guran33 Sergey
          the device is lighter than air .. a semi-rigid or rigid cylinder with hydrogen-helium refueling with a carrying capacity of 80-160 tons-hundred-meter machine, inconspicuous in the radio range, with a practically unlimited stay in position.

          Do you think it will be easier?
          In fact, they have already tried both with us and with the Americans. Moreover, an even simpler option is a tethered balloon in the form of an airship with a radar on board and powered by a cable. It turned out quite well - the winds at the height are very strong, multidirectional, and the windage of the balloon is high. If, however, we follow the path of a free loitering airship, then the question arises of their (because there should be a sufficient number of them) basing. No, they can sit on any lawn, but here's SAILING stop , then any gust of wind can do such a disaster ... And if it's a Cyclone?
          Output ?
          Well, if according to the classics, then these are hangars ... But these hangars must be simply cyclopean. And not from lightweight structures, because we remember about sailing (it will be blown away by the wind along with the airship), but something more solid. Moreover, for each airship and at each base ... It turns out to be expensive ... cumbersome ... unmasking ... easily struck ...
          No, the topic is very interesting, but neither quickly nor cheaply it will definitely work. Well, your own speed is not enough - it takes a long time to go to the duty area, not to evade fighter attacks, even if they cover ... And on the ground - it's easy to find and hit easier.
          I’m not just writing this gag, this topic has been considered very seriously since the late 90s, my friend participated in those discussions. And do you know what they came up with?
          The AWACS plane is BETTER in every way! It is easier to operate on the ground, does not require the creation of additional expensive specific infrastructure, can easily and quickly change locations, can be quickly lifted into the air on alarm, can quickly enter the database area, and when threatened by enemy aircraft, just as quickly leave the dangerous zone, subject to the outfit of fighter cover forces. When based on the ground (as is customary in the Soviet / Russian tradition), it can constantly be in the open air in any weather and season. It does not require separate R&D to create the actual radar carrier and control system - just take any serial civil or transport aircraft and get what you need.
          Regarding the article ... The proposal with "Irbis" is extremely doubtful. It's just that this radar is not designed for long-term continuous operation. During the flight of a fighter, most of the time it is generally turned off or does not work on radiation - so as not to unmask itself in vain, and in order to save the resource. I doubt that this radar is generally capable of continuous operation for at least an hour and a half. Even the radar of the good old S-300 is not capable of this - the resource heats up and quickly sits down. Therefore, it is turned on only when the target is detected by the detecting station or when target designation is received in the ACS. In the same way, the radar of a fighter - they were not created for this at all.
          But if in the Russian Federation they nevertheless solved the problem of creating an element base based on something more heat-resistant than gallium arsenide (and there are persistent rumors that they did solve the problem), then creating a normal AFAR for the radar of an AWACS aircraft will not be difficult. For example, you can take as a basis the receiving-transmitting modules from the S-500 air defense radar. The whole question is in creating the hardware of such an aircraft, resolving the issue with its current topographic location, organizing reliable closed communication channels, combat algorithms ... All this was done for the A-100, only exclusively on not just an imported, but an American radio component base ... As a result, everything is down the drain, waiting for their analogues ... but when we wait, then you can build what you need.
          What now ?
          In fact, they promised to solve this issue with the help of overhead radar containers for the Su-34. They were even adopted for service ... Maybe they are being used ... Or maybe they turned out to be another "Armata".
          There is another possibility - to use carrier-based PLO helicopters on land theaters of the NWO. They have a very good side-looking radar, which perfectly captures both surface and air targets. Especially the low ones. It is clear that not for its intended purpose, but there are simply no other quick (right now) solutions.
          Regarding aircraft as a base for AWACS.
          If the screw IL-114, then it’s better to have a board on the back than such reflections / re-reflections from propellers and engine nacelles, which will give serious interference and closing angles. Board on the back - the issue is resolved.
          As a normal aircraft (not operational-tactical Il-114), AWACS is the most promising for the Tu-214 in its most distant version. On the basis of this aircraft and make the entire line of special-purpose aircraft:
          - AWACS aircraft (50 pcs.),
          - PLO aircraft (with radar for detecting submarines along a water hump / ring effect, LIDAR, a set of dropped buoys, bombs, torpedoes, Uran anti-ship missiles, RTR complex) - from 60 to 100 pcs. ,
          - RTR / complex reconnaissance aircraft (25 - 50 pcs.),
          - REBiP aircraft (30 pieces).
          Part of the equipment for these aircraft can and should be unified, and their total required number gives a good chance for a new life for the Tu-214. And it is right .
          1. +3
            13 May 2023 12: 54
            The fuselage and keel, on the Tu-204,214, MS 21, are made in Ulyanovsk on Aviastar. And this means that the production of Tu214 will leave behind the MS-21, Rostec's cash cow
            1. +9
              13 May 2023 15: 11
              Quote: Evil_minusator
              . And this means that the production of Tu214 will leave behind the MS-21, Rostec's cash cow

              Nobody will leave anyone. MS-21 is the main main aircraft, the future of our Civil Aviation. And no one will limit its release. Yes, and those Tu-214s that were ordered / ordered for airlines - a forced measure, until the MS-21s saturate the market - cleanly intercept. And the airlines do not really want him - he is less economical and has an "extra" crew member (navigator). Moreover, it is "superfluous" only for airlines, so much so that they demand to produce the Tu-214 with a double cabin.
              But this is unreasonable and unacceptable. Airlines will still abandon the Tu-214 when the industry produces enough MS-21s, and in order not to write off practically new cars, it would be most reasonable to send them to the redistribution as a special-purpose aircraft. And here, just a double cabin will most likely be a minus, not a plus - it is much more important for the military to have a navigator on board than to overload the pilots with unnecessary functions - after all, they don’t ride routes on autopilot.
              Tu-214 is the best suited precisely as a base for special-purpose military aircraft. And here its apparent disadvantages turn into fat pluses:
              - the presence of a navigator (for the same MS-21, a special version would have to be made),
              - metal wing (MS-21 composite wing is good for a civilian airliner - better streamlining, lighter, all this is fuel economy), the metal wing is more durable, VERY repairable and less sensitive to damage from weapons. Any hole or other damage to the wing is easily repaired by patching (yes) or replacing the skin panel ... the composite wing will have to be replaced entirely ... or almost entirely.
              - Tu-214 is completely domestic, mass-produced, so there are no problems with spare parts and repairs.
              And the profitability of the military is not the most important thing - in terms of maximum range / loitering time, the Tu-214 still surpasses the MS.
              So the Tu-214 is for the military.
              MS-21 - for civil airlines.
              And everyone will be happy. Including aircraft manufacturers.
              Quote: Evil_minusator
              MS-21, the cash cow of Rostec

              All these investments will pay off when the production of the MS-21 reaches the planned pace (70 aircraft per year). In addition, this aircraft will be in great demand abroad. Iran alone wants at least 300 MS-21s and at least 120 Super-Jets-100s. And there are many more such interests. But not for a pig in a poke, but for a production aircraft with proven characteristics and acceptable service.
              1. +4
                13 May 2023 22: 07
                Tu-214 is the best suited precisely as a base for special-purpose military aircraft

                Absolutely agree! A reasonable decision would be to take from storage or produce one Tu-214/204 for an AWACS aircraft, an anti-submarine aircraft and an RTR aircraft and transfer them to the developers of equipment for building the first aircraft, and while they are being built and tested, resume production of the Tu-204 in Ulyanovsk, if the stocks were not destroyed there, and also, as the MS-21 is saturated, transfer the Tu-214 from the airlines to be converted for AWACS aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft and RTR aircraft.
                There is another problem in our VKS, these are tankers. And here, a reasonable solution would be the construction of the Il-96 400M for civil airlines, with their subsequent withdrawal and conversion into tankers.
                1. +3
                  14 May 2023 10: 59
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  A reasonable decision would be to take from storage or produce one Tu-214/204 for an AWACS aircraft, an anti-submarine aircraft and an RTR aircraft and transfer them to the developers of equipment for building the first aircraft, and while they are being built and tested, resume production of the Tu-204 in Ulyanovsk

                  The fact is that there are now about 20-30 pieces in storage. Tu-204 \ 214, of which you can take several boards for reworking and testing special-purpose aircraft for target hardware saturation. This hardware saturation still needs to be developed / created / tested / brought to fruition. And during this time, the MS-21 will already go into series and reach the practical pace of production, and therefore, the capacities of the Kazan AZ will be quite enough for the construction of the Tu-214 for the Moscow Region. And in Ulyanovsk, let the Il-76MD90A be put into series and bring its production to design capacity, prepare for the remotorization of the entire An-124 fleet, and prepare for the production of a new heavyweight ... or restart the production of Ruslan, if the engines are on the way to it. The country and the Army need heavy and super-heavy transport aircraft.
                  And medium ones are also needed (20 - 25 tons with a carrying capacity), but this is a prospect for the future, now the Ilyushin Design Bureau is not pulling even those projects that are ... even the Il-112V was frozen - there are no personnel.
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  There is another problem in our VKS, these are tankers.

                  The only problem with our tankers is that there are none (categorically few). But there is a plane for them, this is the Il-78MD90A, based on the Il-76MD90A. He can give at a time at a distance of 2000 km. from 52 to 60 tons of fuel, and this is much better, cheaper and more convenient than a tanker based on the Il-96.
                  Shoyga dreamed of making a tanker from the Il-96 at the beginning of his career as Minister of Defense, and they procrastinated this topic for several years. Until someone smart with a calculator showed him HOW MUCH it would cost. Even one purchase (except for the development, testing and organization of the production of these monsters) of finished aircraft will cost 2 times more + new R & D, deadlines, preparation of production lines and organization of industrial cooperation + creation of a special infrastructure for the operation of such huge and specific aircraft (after all, they have a common lane military airfields will not work, give the strip the size and quality at the level of the best world ... well, the conditions of military operation and the need for the ability to be based on ANY military airfields ... In general, the game was definitely not worth the candle. were in serial production ... But to organize the production of such ... aircraft from scratch for the sake of ... tankers?
                  And what is its advantage over the IL-78MD90A?
                  Only in the fact that it is capable of delivering up to 80 tons of fuel at a distance of up to 3000 km. from the airfield. But these are its limiting characteristics.
                  Il-78MD90A is capable of carrying up to 60 tons. fuel at a distance of 2000+ km. from the airfield, but at the same time it can be operated from ANY runways ... And even from GROUND if there is an urgent need. Designed for operation in ANY climatic and weather conditions - from the Arctic to the equatorial tropics, highlands and deserts of the African continent. In short - IL-78MD90A is more convenient, more profitable and better in every way. In addition, this is a serial (I hope) car, so there will be no special problems with repairs and spare parts either.
                  And yet - the Il-98 was conceived as a tanker exclusively for Long-Range Aviation - to refuel the Tu-160 and Tu-95.
                  And that's it!
                  And the Il-78MD90A is capable of refueling both YES and Tactical. Capable of being based on the same airfields as conventional fighters and bombers.
                  He is universal!
                  And this is its most important advantage.
                  And attempts to at least somehow attach our failed masterpiece in the form of the Il-96-400M ... they are understandable, understandable ... but unjustified - the aircraft is clearly outdated. Both conceptually and technically.
                  And even the idea of ​​fitting new (composite) wings with two (instead of 4) engines ... does not stand up to serious criticism.
                  I'll try to explain.
                  Look carefully at the IL-96 standing at the airfield or in the hangar (there are enough such photos on the Internet) and pay attention to the clearance under its ... not so overall (compared to the PD-35) engines.
                  Have you noticed?
                  The gap is not that big.
                  Now look at the pylons on which the engine nacelles are suspended. Is there a margin in height in order to shorten the pylon and raise the upper cut of the PD-35 engine nacelle?
                  There is practically no such stock.
                  Il-96 is a classic low-wing aircraft. And in order to hang such large and powerful engines on it, it is necessary ... what?
                  That's right (!) - lengthen the landing gear as much as possible in order to raise this whole carcass to a sufficient height so that the engines fit under the wing. And even then, if the engines still fit ... can you imagine HOW they will suck in all the dust and debris from the strip ?? And what requirements should be for the runway before it takes off.
                  Try to convert the IL-96 glider from a low wing to a medium wing? smile
                  Is it worth it?
                  For what ?
                  His design is old, his former classmates have long been discontinued and almost gone from the airlines ... he has an old cabin that looks anachronistic ... Why all this circus with horses? So that, after so many torments, years and hundreds \ and hundreds of billions of rubles (perhaps no less than a trillion), get an obsolete and non-competitive aircraft?
                  WHY ??
                  And one more reason to forget about this venture - for the Il-96-400M, not two PD-35s (with a thrust of 35 kg.s.) are needed, but two PD-000s (with a thrust of at least 38 kg.s.).
                  Do you understand? He will need a slightly DIFFERENT engine than the one currently being tested.
                  And it's just REMARKABLE that the IL-96-400M has no prospects in a twin-engine version. Its very technical and physical impossibility makes sabotage impossible for those who provoke and force it. And harm - enemies.
                  We have a GREAT new twin-engine wide-body aircraft of a JOINT Russian-Chinese development. The one for which the PD-35 is being developed !!
                  So it is necessary to produce it - to produce AT YOURSELF, in Russia !! For the fullest cycle.
                  Or in some cooperation with China, but under its own brand - supplying China with cooperation engines, composite wings and tails ... possibly landing gear and part of the power set. And from them receiving (for example) some other components and trim. Or just do EVERYTHING yourself.
                  We will need such rangers from 120 to 200 pieces. (today's estimates), but over time, the need is likely to increase. But there are foreign markets as well. And if we approach the matter with due thrift and promptness, then we can enter foreign markets much faster than China. it’s just that China needs to build 1000 of these aircraft in 10 years to cover domestic demand ... I’m afraid that it will not withstand such a pace and will gradually approach such indicators. Therefore, aircraft of our production will appear on the markets earlier.
                  Who will buy?
                  Yes, the same Iran - it generally has an airplane hunger - fly on the line, the United States refused to supply them with Boeings, and bent the EU to refuse the supply of Airbuses ... But Iran ordered 300 aircraft from Boeing and 330 from Airbus ... So this is exactly our customer . It is already ready to purchase from us 300 MS-21s and 120 Superjet-100s in a fully domestic configuration. So if (say) IL-929 appears, he will gladly order them too. And a lot. And that's just Iran.
                  And then there is India.
                  There is Africa. Yes, yes, the same Africa, which today is the MOST fast-growing and promising market on the planet. And Africa gravitates towards us.
                  There is Latin America. And not only Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua ... We also have a BRICS partner Brazil there. Yes And Argentina. Yes ... You know, I wouldn't even be surprised if Mexico is among the potential clients.
                  These are the prospects if the Il-929 is launched into the series (the development was carried out mainly by the designers of Ilyushin Design Bureau). moreover, with the highly desirable COMPLETE localization of production ... This will VERY strongly develop our industry and the economy as a whole.
                  1. -1
                    18 May 2023 22: 44
                    How long has the MS-21 become wide-body? And the 929th, judging by the latest news, is all.
              2. -1
                22 May 2023 17: 28
                There will be no "mass" production of aircraft in the Russian Federation. The operation will end soon and everything will return to normal: budget-rollback-cut-offshore-yacht...
              3. 0
                5 August 2023 00: 35
                All these investments will pay off when the production of the MS-21 reaches the planned pace (70 aircraft per year)
                That is, never. I bet decisively on anything that as soon as you just need to issue MS-21, like sausages,© it will be abandoned and the design of the next Unparalleled World will begin. I read about a wing that has no analogue in the world for him, so - that's it. Drain the water, put out the light...
          2. +1
            13 May 2023 22: 14
            fellow The inflatable hangar bag is wind-resistant, you just need to anchor it strongly and take into account the folds of the terrain, I understand the platform on the gyroscope is hard and expensive, then a full-fledged airship, a ban on transporting timber from a plot to a warehouse on the ground and the timber merchants themselves will pay for military airships
            1. +6
              14 May 2023 11: 28
              Quote: Guran33 Sergey
              The inflatable hangar bag is wind-resistant, you just need to anchor it strongly and take into account the folds of the terrain

              laughing lol I just imagined such a bag-hangar with a height of a twelve-\fifteen-story building and a length of 200 meters. good It will fly away together with anchors and the foundation, with such and such a windage. Remember what storms and cyclones are in Primorye, in Kamchatka, on the Kola Peninsula? And if this inflatable Miracle gets icy? I'm talking about the hangar.
              And if you build capital hangars, then it will be something like a covered station in St. Petersburg ... for one airship. And dozens of them are needed, no less.
              Quote: Guran33 Sergey
              , a ban on the transportation of timber from a plot to a warehouse on the ground and the timber merchants themselves will pay for military airships

              Taking out the forest with airships ... sounds romantic. bully
              But the topic is still interesting and requires serious and thoughtful discussion. In the late Union, they worked on this issue, and even developed heavy and super-heavy cargo airships, with a carrying capacity of up to 500 tons. Tupolev Design Bureau was engaged in this. And exactly to ensure transport logistics during the development of (industrial and demographic) Siberia ... But it all started with the need to deliver ICBMs to their mines in Siberia and ... yes, yes - to create AWACS airships.
              But all this is a big separate topic.
              hi
          3. +2
            16 May 2023 11: 09
            My regards! So maybe it’s worth returning to the developments of the 90s, however, 30 years have passed. We have a fucking section of the border that is not blocked by anything and is not observed. Now they produce balloons with a carrying capacity of 200-300 kg. They can block the border with optoelectronic means on board, the same cameras and thermal imagers. Regarding the radar, I worked at one small but serious NPP, they had a sample of a small-sized radar, which saw a meter into the depths of the earth from a kilometer height, during tests at the Pacific Fleet they found a wake of a submarine. It was planned to put it on a drone or helicopter. They planned to supply ICBM security teams to detect ambushes. From the same kilometer I could make out a machine gun. And that, through DOGOZ, it was not possible to break through. Will and desire!
          4. +2
            17 May 2023 13: 11
            Quote: bayard
            It turned out quite well - the winds at altitude are very strong, multidirectional, and the windage of the balloon is high

            However, it works. For the front, of course, it’s not the best option, but for border protection, that’s it. From a height of 1-2 km, it gives an excellent overview, allowing you to detect low-flying targets 150-200 km away. From drones and CD - that's it.

      2. +7
        13 May 2023 06: 21
        Yes, you can buy from China, but this will stop your own developments, I see a way out in integration with Belarus, they have always had a developed electronic theme.
        1. AAK
          +17
          13 May 2023 07: 18
          In reality, 2 types of machines are needed - an analogue of the E-2 based on the Il-112/114 to control the air-ground space in the zone of operations of at least an army corps (150-300 km), and on the basis of the Tu-204/214 an aircraft is urgently needed - an analogue E-8 "Jistars" of the reconnaissance-combat control system, the first project is the readiness of the simplest components for the shortest time - 5-6 years, the second - 2-3 years. But this requires political will and economic power, and we have very, very big problems with this, especially with the first component, and you can’t build an airplane from expressing deep concern
          1. +1
            13 May 2023 07: 52
            I have nothing to do with aviation, so the question is an amateur. Today is the first drone war. Why AWACS aircraft must be habitable? Isn't it easier to create a drone capable of flying for months?
            1. +7
              13 May 2023 10: 28
              Here the question is whether the equipment will withstand a flight per month? In theory, it is possible to create a drone that will hang in the air for a relatively long time using updrafts, that is, a kind of classic motorized glider, but such machines are huge and light in weight to have such capabilities. If such a drone is assembled, then it will be possible to place a maximum of some OLS on it, but the capabilities of the OLS are rather limited, and Russia is clearly not at the forefront of progress in this direction. As for large AWACS machines, I think the only limiting factor is communication channels (in our case, also a weak electronic industry), and losing such an expensive machine in the event of a hardware / software failure is very critical, this is not a cheap drone, which is also does not carry special know-how in its design. Someday they will come to this, the Chinese are already making similar machines based on a large UAV, but in the current Russian realities, I don’t think this is possible.
            2. +3
              13 May 2023 10: 34
              Quote: North Caucasus
              Isn't it easier to create a drone capable of flying for months?


              Then the very high price of the drone will be added to the price of expensive radio equipment.
              All the same, something can be done - add a replaceable crew and a lounge, and move remote operator jobs from the board to ground control centers. To make as much of the radio signal processing equipment as possible remote and located in ground complexes. Then the released volume and mass can be given to additional equipment and thus catch up with other models in terms of characteristics.
            3. +2
              13 May 2023 10: 45
              Quote: North Caucasus
              Why AWACS aircraft must be habitable?

              Ensuring the operational control of combat aviation in the air and air defense systems on the ground directly from the aircraft.
              Quote: North Caucasus
              Isn't it easier to create a drone capable of flying for months?

              What will provide his energy during these very months? Radar is a hot thing for energy.
              And what kind of platform should it be? Airship? But it won’t be blown away to the enemy by the wind in case of engine failure? And what will be its fuel autonomy? Of course, more than an airplane, but all other factors speak sharply against such a decision. I described it in a comment above.
              Yes, in modern conditions from an airship, the combat platform is so-so. The IA of the enemy will easily destroy him because he is slow and clumsy, but at the same time very vulnerable. And of course, the conditions of basing - more on that above.
            4. +4
              13 May 2023 14: 09
              For the same reason that manned astronautics exists, although automatic vehicles seem to be able to do more than a person.
              Manned AWACS aircraft are not just aircraft with equipment, they are aircraft with personnel who operate the equipment right on the spot. The fact is that the automation of the device always leads to its satisfaction. This means a decrease in reliability, despite the fact that such equipment always has lower awareness.
              So far, AWACS aircraft in a fully unmanned version have either come out much less reliably. Or they were as reliable as the piloted ones, but at the same time they cost like a cast-iron bridge. And aviation (like almost everything in the army) makes sense of existence only in a certain number. No one in their right mind will take into service the equipment that the army needs, but at the same time they can purchase it in an amount of only 2-3 pieces.
              As a result, for now, to provide a sufficiently large (the keyword is "enough") air wing with at least acceptable characteristics - requires execution in a manned version. Drones are so far only cheaper or better than pilots only as means of aerial reconnaissance and short-range target designation for tactical groups and brigades. At a higher command level. But the higher we rise in the organizational level, the less advantages drones have in various tasks in comparison with manned aircraft.
            5. +3
              13 May 2023 16: 44
              Need, a UAV with a light radar, not necessarily long-range detection, it’s unnecessary for months 24 hours is enough, the main thing is to cover ultra-small up to 100 meters above important objects from drones and kr.
              1. +1
                16 May 2023 11: 14
                While Borisov’s pupils are sitting in the dogoz, there will be nothing in the Moscow Region, unfortunately!
              2. -1
                18 May 2023 22: 54
                Fantasize so fantasize. Instead of one AWACS aircraft - a swarm of UAVs operating synchronously. Then the cost of one element of the swarm will not be excessive. And you can replace a damaged or lost one painlessly
            6. +1
              17 May 2023 13: 15
              Quote: North Caucasus
              Why AWACS aircraft must be habitable?

              Generally they shouldn't.

        2. 0
          18 May 2023 00: 51
          All this is good and wonderful, but we must understand that we are too late - it is impossible to quickly create an aircraft or even an AWACS airship, it takes at least 5-10 years. If we want to get something quickly, we need to take what is in warehouses / storage or is produced easily and quickly. I remember when the British were pinned down, they put radar stations on the utterly old Shackleton aircraft, not even the third, but the second modification, from the decommissioned Gannet AEW aircraft, having received the CASE Shackleton AEW aircraft. And a little later, in 1982, when it was pressed again, radars from the Nimrod aircraft were installed on the SeaKing helicopters. Yes, not a fountain, but it made it possible to close the hole before the arrival of new technology - something is better than nothing. Do we have something that can be used quickly, or have we optimized it to zero?
          1. 0
            21 May 2023 01: 16
            And yes, after the re-equipment of the UkrVVS with the F-16, the appearance of Hokaevs in them will be a matter of time.
      3. 0
        13 May 2023 08: 22
        Quote: Aerodrome
        buy from the Chinese. nothing else comes to mind.

        Will they sell? China would have helped with shells. It would be great!
        1. +2
          14 May 2023 02: 20
           Until the end of the war, strategic weapons will definitely not be sold, China, after all, has not broken face with Europe now and will not openly help Russian weapons and ammunition, but machine tools and components for the production of weapons have always been supplied to Russia. Before the war, Russia was supposed to buy weapons, not keep a face. 
      4. +4
        13 May 2023 09: 05
        You can’t buy military equipment abroad if you can do it yourself (at least potentially) it’s simply dangerous
      5. -1
        13 May 2023 14: 53
        Here, unfortunately, the Soviet story comes to mind: When the Union had a need for an aircraft that could fly to the United States and unload several nuclear weapons there, Stalin's brains worked perfectly and ON TIME: "Somewhere in Primorye he is hardly sitting not at a field airfield, a 4-engine B-29, he told Tupolev. Can you make a copy down to an inch fastener in a few months? Tupolev replied that we would not have time with the motors, but we have something suitable - we can play it up.
        "Make a copy with Soviet engines, but I give exactly one year."
        So exactly a year later (at the end of the 40s) the Tu-4 took to the air and was ready to be loaded with vigorous loaves.
        That's what it means to think quickly, sensibly and on time - this is beyond our authorities, although this decision had to be made in the late 80s, when tens of thousands of kilometers of our borders were exposed - but what could be taken from party senile and drunk builders ???
        1. +6
          13 May 2023 18: 39
          Enough fairy tales then broadcast. For copying, you need your own industrial base, and this is just a problem.
          1. -3
            13 May 2023 21: 05
            Quote: Evil_minusator
            Enough fairy tales then broadcast. For copying, you need your own industrial base, and this is just a problem.

            Copying the B-29 made it possible to seriously raise the level of technology in the aviation industry and related industries.
            1. +6
              13 May 2023 22: 02
              No. Exactly the opposite. Copying the B-29 NEEDED to seriously raise the level of technology in the aviation industry. For this, cooperation was created from 900 enterprises headed by OKB No.156 A. N. Tupolev. Sixty people's commissariats and departments of Soviet industry were involved.
              How do you imagine a project of this magnitude in modern conditions?
            2. 0
              14 May 2023 11: 07
              What's with the logic of VPS? Copying itself is possible in the presence of a production and scientific base, as well as time and personnel. This is NOTHING.
      6. 0
        13 May 2023 16: 23
        Buying from China is a good idea, BUT if, of course, they sell it and WHEN!
      7. -3
        13 May 2023 18: 14
        Quote: Aerodrome
        buy from the Chinese. nothing else comes to mind.

        Judging by the intro, the author stupidly offers to buy Hokai from the Americans
      8. -2
        13 May 2023 20: 55
        A BE-200 seaplane would be perfect! Previously, there was no engine for it due to the failure of Motor Sich, now Russian analogues have appeared! The point is only in the order of the Ministry of Defense.
        1. +1
          15 May 2023 11: 39
          Quote: Vicontas
          A BE-200 seaplane would be perfect! Previously, there was no engine for it due to the failure of Motor Sich, now Russian analogues have appeared! The point is only in the order of the Ministry of Defense.

          Bury the stewardess. ©
          Taganrog is notorious for the fact that it regularly disrupts the production of the Be-200 - both for the Moscow Region and for the Ministry of Emergency Situations. The Ministry of Defense even had to terminate the contract in court - and after the conclusion of a new contract for a smaller number of aircraft, the deadlines were still missed by a year.
          And this is a well-established product. But under AWACS, the base platform will have to be seriously finalized, primarily in terms of electromagnetic compatibility.
      9. +1
        14 May 2023 05: 28
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Aircraft AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive
        buy from the Chinese. nothing else comes to mind.

        Are they willing to sell?
      10. 0
        14 May 2023 19: 16
        They won't sell because they won't sell. No one will share critical technologies. Here Huawei generally left the market, from the word at all.
      11. 0
        14 May 2023 19: 47
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Aircraft AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive
        buy from the Chinese. nothing else comes to mind.

        Do not sell.
      12. 0
        16 May 2023 00: 04
        Yes, aliexpress is full of good stuff. Since their buyers and manufacturers of weapons are imprisoned to plunder their homeland, you will have to pay aliexpress or waldberis fool .
    2. -1
      13 May 2023 17: 44
      It will be cheaper and faster to finish the Helios-RLD UAV and put it into series
    3. +1
      14 May 2023 16: 40
      Quote: ALEXX.
      There have always been problems with AWACS aircraft in Russia.

      If the task was to ensure the security of Russia, then balloons with radar equipment would have been used long ago. Remote control, around the perimeter, with cross duplication. Minimum danger to operators, with the ability to change, on duty. AWACS is good, for the attacking country, for defense - balloons, a more budget option.
      And yes, in a country with a developed "sawing practice", balloons are a trifle that does not excite ludocrats.
      1. +1
        17 May 2023 17: 25
        "For defense - balloons", fine, as long as there is no war. Half an hour after the attack, all these balloons will be gone. And then it turns out that the planes are more needed.
    4. +1
      15 June 2023 06: 57
      And we were told that so many ground-based radars were set up, the entire territory was covered with them, and for 5 thousand kilometers we see a tennis ball, alas, we won’t have time to build them quickly, but they were needed yesterday, it’s time to cut without waiting for peritonitis and hare to ruin the army, for which did they push, tighten their belts and make nuclear weapons a lot of different things for all tasks? It's time to burn out the security belt in Poland with a corridor of 300 kilometers, destroy 3 English submarines with nuclear weapons with zircons and immediately send England to the Stone Age of the Strategic Missile Forces, and no one will twitch anymore, the United States will close so it will not be heard, and their base on Guam can be shied away , this is not the territory of the United States, but who blew it up there and no one will understand if the zircon arrives, enough already almonding until we shy away from them, they will not understand, and this is a fact.
  2. +12
    13 May 2023 04: 44
    Much needed car! this proves the tenacity with which the saloreich is trying to disable them in the VKS. It is completely incomprehensible why our Defense Ministry and Roskosmos have not yet attached paramount importance to this issue ... Although, I guess that was not before:
    Throwing a knapsack over the shoulder
    Ernst waved to her: You overpower yourself!
    After all, the grateful will remember the descendants
    Squirrel, Strelka and... Peresild!
    A hole in the board is not a toy for you!
    I need to de-stress immediately...
    Drain a billion just to flip the clapperboard
    By calling ... a "doctor" directly to the ISS!
    1. +4
      13 May 2023 05: 29
      Quote: Ax Matt
      Throwing a knapsack over the shoulder
      Ernst waved to her: You overpower yourself!
      After all, the grateful will remember the descendants
      Squirrel, Strelka and... Peresild!
      A hole in the board is not a toy for you!
      I need to de-stress immediately...
      Drain a billion just to flip the clapperboard
      By calling ... a "doctor" directly to the ISS!

      And you can:
      Throwing a knapsack over the shoulder
      Ernst waved to her: You overpower yourself!
      Let the grateful descendants remember
      Squirrel with Arrow and... Peresild!
      A hole in the board is not a toy for you!
      I need to de-stress immediately...
      Drain a billion just to flip the clapperboard
      By calling the "doctor" directly to the ISS!
      feel
  3. +7
    13 May 2023 05: 22
    AWACS aircraft for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive - YESTERDAY!
  4. +16
    13 May 2023 05: 23
    First of all, you need to separate the cutlets from the flies or the grain from the chaff. Withdraw Aviation from the Ministry of Industry and Trade.
    Then separate factories and aircraft with Russian components from factories and aircraft with imported components, with the creation of separate JSCs. Leave production on imported components to "efficient" managers, even if they are in the Ministry of Industry and Trade, so as not to interfere with Russian factories. Why? Because they will hang around with the Superjet and MS-21 for another 15-20 years. And Russian planes can now be riveted and riveted without any problems.
    What is the problem with AWACS and U? There is absolutely no one to raise the question to the top management about the need for these aircraft. And no one, absolutely no one is engaged in AWACS. There is no design bureau, no production. There are no concepts, no developments.
    They don’t even want to steal a good AWACS design from the enemy. I'm talking about Grumman-E-2C.
    Looking at the photo of the IL-112, it seems to me alone that the wing area does not correspond to the weight of the aircraft and the volume of the fuselage? soldier
    1. +2
      13 May 2023 05: 48
      It's like a "gazelle" in terms of load .. 6 tons .. And the case is cotton to carry .. wink
      1. +3
        13 May 2023 06: 20
        Cotton is not cotton, but the plane is clearly not for AWACS.
    2. +8
      13 May 2023 08: 23
      Quote: V.

      +4
      First of all, you need to separate the cutlets from the flies or the grain from the chaff. Withdraw Aviation from the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

      It is easier to withdraw Manturov from the Ministry of Industry and Trade.
      But I like the idea of ​​creating two different aviation industries, although it will cost the state dearly, but the effect should be.
      And yet, it is cheaper to replace Manturov with a professional and a patriot than to fence two aviation industries.
      1. +2
        13 May 2023 11: 42
        Why is it expensive? Almost everything is there. The whole question is in the division of leading cadres into patriotic statesmen and globalists, and bank accounts. Open accounts for Russian aviation in purely Russian banks, such as Post Bank.
        The main thing is that everything should be Russian, absolutely everything, even brooms for cleaning the workshop.
        In principle, Manturov can also be forced to work by the sweat of his brow, having drawn up for him the correct job description, with clauses on punishment and encouragement, up to and including execution. soldier
        1. +2
          13 May 2023 21: 11
          Quote: V.
          With clauses on punishment and encouragement, up to and including execution.

          Yes, if there is still landing on a stake and quartering, then the execution will definitely be an encouragement.
    3. +8
      13 May 2023 09: 59
      Quote: V.
      And Russian planes can now be riveted and riveted without any problems.
      What is the problem with AWACS and U?

      The problem is that we do not produce anything ourselves. Almost nothing. We even buy household electric motors in China. There is no element base for the RPK, engines and much more. Most likely, competencies in the development of critical components both in the airframe and in its equipment have been lost. You can move the idea, only where to get specialists for its implementation. The country has been riveting lawyers and managers for 30 years, and even that is of terrible quality. It took Stalin several five-year plans to create industry, but then there was a will and an apparatus for forcing the fulfillment of this will. Now all of this is missing.
    4. +2
      13 May 2023 14: 39
      Not only to you. But this is the trend of modern aircraft industry - the latest supercritical profiles have made it possible to significantly increase the load per square meter of wing area while maintaining its carrying capacity (that is, to reduce its area for the same aircraft weight). And a smaller wing size means a smaller washed surface, which means less resistance and, as a result, lower fuel consumption (which is by no means superfluous for an already "pot-bellied" transporter). A lower consumption is an increase in range with the same fuel supply.
    5. 0
      13 May 2023 16: 34
      Do you remember how many years have passed until the "captured" B-29 was turned into the TU-4 by "reverse engineering"? At least 3 years old, but it was put into service in 1949. And it was in the USSR and there was Tupolev!
  5. +12
    13 May 2023 05: 25
    All the good days!
    It seems to me that the main snag here is not with carriers (aircraft), but with microelectronics of domestic production.
    After all, aircraft are produced here, but microelectronics seem to be produced, but it seems that it’s not particularly difficult with this.
    Although I don't understand why.
    A little information:
    AMD company abandoned its own production and our company Angstrem Emnip bought the equipment for chip production. Yes, there is not the most modern technical process (theoretically, they can produce chips using 32-45 nm technology) and this is no longer suitable for consumer electronics. But after all, for industry and military equipment, after all, it is the most.
    Reliability, performance - for these purposes with a head + domestic production - a guarantee that there will be no bookmarks and backdoors from "partners".
    But something I have not heard that chips were produced on this line.
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 20: 42
      Quote: I_Alpharius
      AMD company abandoned its own production and our company Angstrem Emnip bought the equipment for chip production. Yes, there is not the most modern technical process (theoretically, they can produce chips using 32-45 nm technology) and this is no longer suitable for consumer electronics. But after all, for industry and military equipment, after all, it is the most.
      Reliability, performance - for these purposes with a head + domestic production - a guarantee that there will be no bookmarks and backdoors from "partners".
      But something I have not heard that chips were produced on this line.

      On the Boeing-737, there are 4th generation Pentiums in avionics, in some places and 486th processors. The problem is the integration of the zoo into a single structure. Vega has always been involved in our AWACS, but the production part has always failed to keep up with their projects, even with purchases before the sanctions. The ideas are good, there is nothing to embody, the author of the article is right, we must proceed from what we have
      1. 0
        15 May 2023 11: 44
        Quote: ZEMCH

        On the Boeing-737 there are 4th generation Pentiums in avionics, in some places and 486th processors.

        So the Yankees wrote that when they go to technologies less than 180 nm, failures and problems with reliability in flight begin.
    2. 0
      22 May 2023 11: 47
      "theoretically they can produce chips using 32-45 nm technology" cannot, our 90nm Micron seems to be able, but we need to look in more detail, it is better to rely on a thicker process, and 200mm wafers, not 300mm like modern factories
  6. +6
    13 May 2023 05: 39
    You can write a bunch of letters, making sentences out of them ... But, something got sick of everything ... This tinsel and fireworks got sick of it ... I only remembered:
    Я
    our plans
    люблю
    bulk,
    scope
    Steps
    fathoms...
  7. -4
    13 May 2023 06: 07
    There is a Yak-40 or Yak-42 park ... why not use them as a platform.
    1. +3
      13 May 2023 07: 25
      Yak-40/42 are too voracious. They need new motors (some Europeans have already done this, it seems to fly). Still, AWACS should hang in the air as long as possible. And for the Yak-40, especially with a "hat" on the roof, you will need equipment for refueling and an air tanker for full-fledged work.
      And the antenna leg can interfere with the air supply to the middle engine.
      Replace 3 engines with a pair of PD-14s (on the Yak-42), when they go into production, then the norms.
    2. 0
      13 May 2023 11: 47
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      There is a Yak-40 or Yak-42 park ... why not use them as a platform.
      When they were making the A-100, they hardly stuffed the complex into the Il-76 (they were preparing to switch to the An-125), and you - the Yak-40. Although it may be a pity that they didn’t switch to Ruslan: yes, it’s expensive, but there would be new AWACS aircraft, and now, due to sanctions, even if you switch to a domestic element base, the equipment will not fit into the IL-76, only A -50.
      All of the above are rumors from the Internet.
      1. -2
        13 May 2023 13: 02
        Why lie. There was simply no other base where to put it on the Tu-154 or something. Tu95 and IL76, the choice was small.
        1. -1
          13 May 2023 13: 22
          Quote: Evil_minusator
          Why lie. There was simply no other base where to put it on the Tu-154 or something. Tu95 and IL76, the choice was small.
          Once again: Ruslan.
          1. -1
            14 May 2023 11: 08
            Ruslan was not there then. You need to have a snack.
            1. -1
              14 May 2023 14: 19
              Quote: Evil_minusator
              Ruslan was not there then. You need to have a snack.
              When is "then"? Ruslan was created back in the USSR, the A-100 began to be made after 10 years, flew in 2016.
  8. +3
    13 May 2023 06: 09
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Я
    our plans
    люблю
    bulk,
    scope
    Steps
    sazhens.

    This is an old Russian fun to step on the same rake of unpreparedness for war.
  9. +7
    13 May 2023 06: 11
    fast, a lot, cheap

    "Quickly, a lot, inexpensively" are only rabbits. And AWACS aircraft have always been expensive. There are not many expensive "tricks", but as many as necessary and not one more. And what would be fast - you need to have an aircraft industry and an electronics industry of the appropriate level. And this is not counting science, the most modern and highly paid science.
    So, neither quickly, nor much, and even more inexpensive, UNTIL there will be no AWACS aircraft in Russia, unfortunately. Mr. Manturov cannot establish mass production of ordinary civilian aircraft, however ...
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 06: 26
      The USSR produced up to 40% of the world's fleet, personal responsibility and subordination of the military-industrial complex plants are needed, but at least revive the "sharashki", but Russia has no time for chatter, in the event of a serious mess, there is nothing to answer except for nuclear weapons.
    2. 0
      13 May 2023 21: 17
      Quote: Amateur
      . Mr. Manturov cannot establish mass production of ordinary civilian aircraft, however ...

      If I wanted, then smart people would help ...
  10. +6
    13 May 2023 06: 17
    Judging by the AWACS in the Moscow Region, they don’t understand at all why it is needed. Because in aerial reconnaissance we have had seams full for a long time. And there is no way out.
    1. 0
      13 May 2023 15: 12
      Just wait: Borisov will patch up the holes in our space intelligence - then it will be possible to load him with AWACS:: he is a man with a real education and excellent brains - not some mongrel with a managerial diploma in sociology, bought in the transition - Borisov will also pull AWACS.
  11. +5
    13 May 2023 06: 19
    They had to be developed always and constantly. Every year, two - new. IL-76 is being built, and in parallel, the corresponding equipment is being manufactured for it. And military satellites 200 -300 pieces. lacks.
  12. +1
    13 May 2023 06: 29
    Quote: Amateur
    So, neither quickly, nor much, and even more inexpensive, UNTIL there will be no AWACS aircraft in Russia, unfortunately.

    How then, in 1942, it was possible to establish mass production of IL-2, Yak-3, LA-5, Pe-2 aircraft ... this is with a much worse state of the country's economy during the war ... I think it's only a matter of competent and motivated management personnel of the middle and upper echelons ... the trouble with this.
    The mediocre leadership is the eternal scourge of Russia.
    1. +5
      13 May 2023 09: 37
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Quote: Amateur
      So, neither quickly, nor much, and even more inexpensive, UNTIL there will be no AWACS aircraft in Russia, unfortunately.

      How then, in 1942, it was possible to establish mass production of IL-2, Yak-3, LA-5, Pe-2 aircraft ... this is with a much worse state of the country's economy during the war ... I think it's only a matter of competent and motivated management personnel of the middle and upper echelons ... the trouble with this.
      The mediocre leadership is the eternal scourge of Russia.

      What kind of mania is it to compare the production of aircraft that are much simpler in design with modern aviation?
      1. 0
        13 May 2023 13: 04
        The comparison is quite justified, as it allows you to compare managers from different eras.
    2. +1
      13 May 2023 11: 54
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      How then, in 1942, it was possible to establish mass production of IL-2, Yak-3, LA-5, Pe-2 aircraft ... this is with a much worse state of the country's economy during the war
      The level of IL-2, Yak-3, LA-5, Pe-2 corresponded to the level of industry of the USSR (wooden structures even for IL-2, low-life engines, problems with automation, etc.), and a modern AWACS aircraft requires a higher level development of industry than it is now (otherwise the equipment will not fit on board). An outdated AWACS aircraft is a waste of money, you can use those that are now.
    3. 0
      14 May 2023 06: 07
      How then, in 1942, it was possible

      Very simply, at that time, any person knew that for failure to fulfill their duties, at best, a penal battalion or hard labor, and at worst a bullet in the forehead.
      And now, at most, they will be transferred to another place of work and threatened with a finger.
      1. -1
        18 May 2023 23: 06
        You just have to shoot everyone. Curious who you work for? Ready to stand up against the wall in case of non-fulfillment of production plans? And do not idealize the past - then by the way, too, everything happened. Rewarding the innocent, punishing the innocent. It happened that sensible specialists were devoured by mediocrity with connections. Polikarpov was devoured, for example? Gobbled up with a whistle
  13. +12
    13 May 2023 06: 48
    We, the country's economy, have been set up and based on the plundering of the country and the "trade of the Motherland." Until there is a change in the economic and educational course, at least in the main areas, it is useless to talk about planes, tanks, etc.! No, of course, Russia is capable of making single copies for parades. But mass production requires a different economy and leaders with a different level of education! Who will be able, at least a "step forward", to foresee the future. Under Putin, this is not possible!!
  14. 0
    13 May 2023 07: 18
    The necessary aircraft will be made of course ... in fifty years
    1. 0
      13 May 2023 16: 35
      Who needs it, the future is for UAVs, avaks at airfields will be burned by cheap drones. Wedge wedge.
  15. +2
    13 May 2023 08: 27
    – the minimum cost of acquisition and operation;
    – minimum terms of development and launch in a series;
    - a fairly modern radar complex;

    Can not be. There is a famous phrase:
    We are the best on the market, we do:
    1. Fast.
    2. Cheap.
    3. Qualitatively.
    Choose 2 options. laughing
  16. +6
    13 May 2023 08: 33
    But I don’t understand why there must be an AWACS AIRCRAFT? And why not AIRSHIP AWACS and U? For our country and in this situation, it would be better, and most importantly more promising and cheaper
    Ideally, we need a light AWACS aircraft in the weight category E-2C Hawkeye,
    So what's up? Then you need to get materials on the Yak-44E project from the archives and convert them into numbers ... So much faster you can get a ready-made aircraft


    1. +5
      13 May 2023 13: 22
      There are no engines (there were Zaporozhye), that is, in general, and there is no one to make them.
    2. +3
      15 May 2023 11: 53
      Quote: svp67
      Then you need to get materials on the Yak-44E project from the archives and convert them into numbers ... So much faster you can get a ready-made aircraft

      So much faster you can get only digital drawings. The specifications of which will indicate non-existent materials and production units of non-existent factories according to non-existent GOSTs. Starting with engines and ending with all avionics. sad
  17. +2
    13 May 2023 09: 06
    Suggestions are good. But everything, as usual, rests on the reluctance or indifference of those who issue orders and funds for the implementation of plans
  18. +4
    13 May 2023 09: 26
    There can be two questions in one question. Reconnaissance in defensive and local wars and reconnaissance at great distances from native shores.

    For local conflicts, such as the current NWO, and to protect our own borders, I propose to consider uninhabited and remotely controlled balloons and airships with radars and use from the radars what we have today or what can be quickly finalized - at least
    Radar aircraft A-100 or something else in this style at high altitudes and something simpler and smaller at low altitudes.

    Advantages
    Cheap, fast and high quality. You can make a lot of them and hang them over the theater of operations and along the perimeter of the country.
    If we talk only about the line-of-sight range, excluding radar and radio visibility, to give a general idea, here is an example:

    Visibility with radius:
    10 km 370 km
    20 km 500 km
    30 km 650 km

    And, accordingly, with a diameter twice as large.

    Thus, one large perimeter for every 1000 km of the border, another such perimeter on its territory is 500 km away from the border.
    This is to protect all the borders of the Motherland.

    Then specifically for CBO, for example:

    Four at an altitude of 10 km along the perimeter of Ukraine twice reliably cover the entire front line to a depth of more than 350 km



    One above Brest at an altitude of 20 km covers the entire western Ukraine up to Transnistria.



    One at an altitude of 30 km above Sevastopol sees everything in Istanbul and Odessa and in Kharkov and in the suburbs of Kyiv.


    Another one of the same over Gomel sees Kyiv and Kharkov and Lvov and Dnepropetrovsk and Chisinau
  19. +5
    13 May 2023 09: 35
    Well, yes, build airships, or even just balloons, they don’t really need to fly, the main thing is to close the gaps in the reconnaissance of the NWO, raised it to the required height, even the same balloon, over its territory and look, at least look around and there are no special requirements for the weight of the equipment , and its compactness. In the 30s of the last century, the USSR could easily do this, whether the "Russian Federation" in the 21st century will pull with its powerful administrative apparatus, there are doubts about this
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. +9
    13 May 2023 10: 23
    It seems to me that the matter will be limited to this article. As long as such individuals as Shoigu are at the helm of the morph, and such crooks as Manturov are at the helm of industry, until then things will not go further than articles
  22. +3
    13 May 2023 10: 30
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Quote: Amateur
    So, neither quickly, nor much, and even more inexpensive, UNTIL there will be no AWACS aircraft in Russia, unfortunately.

    How then, in 1942, it was possible to establish mass production of IL-2, Yak-3, LA-5, Pe-2 aircraft ... this is with a much worse state of the country's economy during the war ... I think it's only a matter of competent and motivated management personnel of the middle and upper echelons ... the trouble with this.
    The mediocre leadership is the eternal scourge of Russia.

    The Yak-3 is actually 1944, and in general the comparison is not entirely correct, the aircraft industry then had a large reserve of capacities, the Yak-1, Pe-2, IL-2 were mastered by production before the war, the planes were much more primitive design, now schoolchildren with hammers don't put it on assembly. And it cannot be said that the economy was worse, it was different - the most militarized, when people had minimal needs and were ready to plow for a piece of bread so as not to die of hunger, today a rollback to such a state of the economy would be a disaster in itself.
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 13: 19
      The rollback has already happened a long time ago, and even without a war. If you don’t produce, then you don’t consume, it’s just that often these two logically connected events are separated in time.
  23. +7
    13 May 2023 10: 35
    Soviet galoshes are running out, but there are no Russian ones on the horizon ...
    1. +5
      13 May 2023 12: 47
      The main problem is with our head, all technical problems can be solved. About the A-50. I knew a person (earth rest in peace) who prepared a decision to create it on the basis of the IL-76, which, to put it mildly, is not an entirely optimal solution. I asked why not on the IL-86, the answer was not quite ready then, and 76 was in the series. Why is it not optimal at 76. For 76, the fuselage weight is approximately 90 tons, for the Tu-214, approximately 60 tons. That is, with similar performance characteristics, 76 carries 30 tons of metal. These 30 tons are intended for the transport of goods, landing on the ground, etc. Why does an AWACS plane land on the ground and carry armored personnel carriers? Plus, to fence a high-wing aircraft with a negative V-shaped wing on the plane, there’s another plate, that is, in fact, one more wing is still the same idea. Tactical AWACS cannot be made now, there is no engine of the required dimension. What happens when they try to squeeze a little more out of the engine was shown by the IL-112 disaster. Now, regarding the Tu-214, if you try to make demands on it in terms of OTT, then nothing will happen. You can't make a tank out of a bus. The result is a different aircraft with poor performance characteristics, i.e. not serial. Any design is balanced and a compromise between different characteristics. If you touch one, the other will go, the balance will be upset. Therefore, all the fuss with the idea of ​​​​making the base Tu-214 has been going on for 20 years without an obvious result. That is, the customer has no common sense. The only aircraft that, through various tricks, managed to be made with minimal alterations from the serial one and put into operation is the Tu-214ON. You can write a novel not a novel, but a story about it, but the time has not yet come to write about it. So the problem is with the head.
      1. 0
        15 May 2023 14: 58
        Other things being equal, IL76 and IL96 .... even as a cargo IL96, it flies more economically and further.
  24. +1
    13 May 2023 13: 13
    Tu-204/214 is good. Cheaper than the 76th by 2 times, the range is even more than a thousand km, the size allows you to place a lot of things. And there is seriality. Ideally, both versions should be produced at 2 factories. Then you can go on 12 - 15 boards a year - enough for everyone. The PS-90 engine has been worked out, serial.
    Avionics own, worked out. Need to do!
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 56
      Moreover, there is a version for flights to Vladivostok, IL96 still exists. And it is also more economical than IL76
  25. 0
    13 May 2023 14: 46
    The proposed on-board placement of conformal antennas of the Irbis radar on the Tu-114-300 aircraft is worse than the antenna placement option like that of the P600 AEW AWACS. Since the horizontal in-phase scanning within +/- 60 degrees in azimuth by the beams of the front and rear AFAR (at a distance of 400 km in horizontal flight at an altitude of 8 km) is interfered with by the engine nacelles and the Tu-114-300 wing. Therefore, the resolution of the AFAR and the accuracy of determining the range to the target will be reduced imho. When placed in the “crest”, above the fuselage, the ridge can be extended to the vertical tail unit (keel) and even constructively combine the AFAR vertical ridge and keel. This will make it possible to reduce the turbulence of the keel flow, reduce the vibrations of the aircraft body and increase the accuracy of aiming at the target of the onboard laser weapon, which can be placed on the AWACS aircraft.
    1. +1
      14 May 2023 18: 37
      Estimated on-board placement of conformal antennas of the Irbis radar
      The Irbis does not have any conformal antennas, but there is a flat headlamp with the possibility of mechanical rotation.
      interfere with the engine nacelles and the wing of the Tu-114-300. Therefore, the resolution of the AFAR and the accuracy of determining the range to the target will be reduced imho.
      The resolution of the radar and the accuracy of determining the coordinates are determined by the parameters of the signal used and the signal-to-noise ratio, and not by the wings and engine nacelles. Airframe elements can only obscure certain areas of space for the radar.
      1. 0
        16 May 2023 14: 51
        The resolution of the radar and the accuracy of determining the coordinates are determined by the parameters of the signal used and the signal-to-noise ratio, and not by the wings and engine nacelles.

        The resolution of the radar and the accuracy of determining the coordinates are determined, as in optics, by the diameter of the AFAR web and the distance between several AFARs operating in phase. Moreover, the distance between several APAA can be determined not in space, but in space-time, i.e. correlations are calculated using the correlation of the amplitudes and phases of the reflected signals sent by a given AFAA canvas at a given and at another spatiotemporal location of the AFAA during the flight on an AWACS aircraft. So, for example, AFARs with a synthetic aperture work. The effective diameter of the synthesized aperture is much larger than the diameter of the AFAR web that flies in the aircraft AWACS synthesizes the aperture. Correlations can also be calculated between the signals transmitted by the head and tail panels of the AFAR, shown in the figure of the proposed on-board placement of conformal antennas of the Irbis radar on the Tu-114-300 aircraft. Using a similar method for calculating correlations between two signals in the famous experiment of Brown and Twiss, the angular diameters of stars were determined, which indicates a good resolution of the correlation interferometers. see https://deru.abcdef.wiki/wiki/Intensit%C3%A4tsinterferometer
        The elements of the airframe of the aircraft obscure the APAA, make part of the emitters of the AFAR web inoperative in some directions of the AFAR beams crossing the wing or engine nacelles, which leads to a decrease in the effective diameter of the AFAR aperture in these directions and a decrease in the resolution of the AFAR.
        1. 0
          16 May 2023 16: 21
          Once again, there are no conformal antennas on the Irbis, and it is not an afar, and it works without these correlation interferometers. And if you want to do as you wrote, then it will be a completely different system, which will take a lot of time and effort. And the task is to make as quickly as possible with a minimum of modifications a system that would ensure the detection of air and ground targets with the range needed for an AWACS aircraft with a minimum of time spent on a circular view of space. And all these frills with synthesized apertures will not work here.
          1. +1
            16 May 2023 20: 49
            Quote: Hexenmeister
            And all these frills with synthesized apertures will not work here.

            Once again: the resolution of any telescope (and the radar on an AWACS aircraft can be considered as a telescope) is directly proportional to the diameter of the telescope aperture.
            Those. if we want to increase the resolution of the radar, then we need to increase its aperture.
            The possibilities of increasing the diameter of a single telescope mirror ran into problems with the mechanical strength of the telescope mirror and its holders. Therefore, in order to increase the resolution of telescopes in the world, they took a different path: they make several mirrors of not very large diameter (in our case, the "mirror" is a radar sheet with an aperture diameter no larger than the diameter of the fuselage of an AWACS aircraft), and then synthesize their special aperture as fast as possible electronic circuit. As a result, a synthesized aperture is obtained with a diameter that is an order of magnitude greater than the diameters of individual mirrors (that is, AFAR antenna sheets). Accordingly, the resolution increases by an order of magnitude. And if we want to obtain the maximum resolution for a given fuselage diameter of the AWACS aircraft, then synthesize the apertures of the front and rear AFAR canvases (installed before and after the wing on the proposed side placement on the sides of the fuselage of the Tu-114-300 aircraft, see the figure in the article) still have to.
            1. -1
              16 May 2023 22: 48
              What do you think, if instead of one aircraft, three or four stratospheric balloons are raised at a given place and the necessary antennas and emitters are stretched on them? After all, then you get a huge telescope. At the same time, judging by the recent events over America, when they tried to shoot down a Chinese probe, the Americans cannot shoot down stratospheric balloons at an altitude of thirty kilometers, they only succeeded when it fell much lower. Thus, they will not be able to give Ukraine anything for this, because they themselves don’t have it, which means they can even lift it, for example, right in the center of Ukraine and see the whole of Ukraine, the smallest detail of every car and every soldier, everything is in full view 24 hours a day and at this almost without consuming fuel? Or, as a last resort, hang several of these around the perimeter under the protection of air defense?
              By the way, it would have turned out much cheaper than an A-50 reconnaissance aircraft and at the same time better and easier to manufacture, right?
              1. 0
                17 May 2023 18: 00
                Is there a simple and understandable explanation for non-specialists why it is impossible to stretch a huge radar on stratospheric balloons directly over Ukraine, for example, it would hang there constantly and see everything at a height unattainable for Ukrainian air defense, solving one of the most acute problems for the Russian army of reconnaissance, target designation and fire adjustment. Of course, he would have to promptly provide information on multiple requests from the battlefield and from headquarters, but this can be done, right?
                1. -1
                  18 May 2023 23: 14
                  You - to Donetsk, to the writer Berezin. He loves this - two-meter torpedoes in diameter, for example
            2. 0
              17 May 2023 08: 31
              Comparing radar and telescope is absolutely pointless! If you fuss "Irbis" everywhere, then unlike a telescope, it "possesses" not only spatial resolution but also resolution in delay and Doppler frequency, which the telescope does not have. And the emphasis in the Irbis is on the last two parameters, because if two objects differ in delay and / or Doppler frequency, then even if there is no spatial resolution, this radar will be able to determine their exact angular coordinates !!! And another question, you are telling us here in a very multi-letter way about in-phase radiation with correlation interferometers, and what type of signal will you use for this? And what will be its parameters?
              1. 0
                17 May 2023 09: 50
                Quote: Hexenmeister
                what type of signal will you use for this? And what will be its parameters?
                AFAR (as well as telecops) has resolution for delay and Doppler frequency. For example, it was precisely by the Doppler shift of the spectral lines of distant galaxies, recorded by telescopes, that it was determined that the universe is expanding. The duration of the radiation delay from the center of the star and from its peripheral part is determined on telescopes by the correlation method.
                For the detection of Stealth aircraft, the AFAR range with wavelengths of 20..40 cm (radiation frequencies from 0,75 to 1.5 GHz) is suitable. It is desirable to organize a pulsed mode of APAA radiation. The radiation frequency of each APAA pulse should be chosen pseudo-randomly from the wavelength range of 20..40 cm.
                The duration of each pulse of the AFAR emitters is about 1 microsecond. The interval between pulses is about 1 millisecond. The power of each pulse emitter is about ten kilowatts. The time-average power dissipated on the emitter is about 10 W. The total number of emitters in the AFAR canvas is several thousand. The polarization of microwave waves from APAA can be different, for example, linear or circular.
                1. 0
                  17 May 2023 13: 38
                  radiation frequencies from 0,75 to 1.5 GHz ... The duration of each pulse of the APAA emitters is about 1 microsecond. The interval between pulses is about 1 millisecond ... The power of each pulsed emitter is about ten kilowatts ... The total number of emitters in the AFAR web is several thousand.

                  And what does all this splendor have to do with the Irbis ??? You started your story about him! It has a completely different range, completely different powers, and with such a signal you will have a lot of problems in detecting against the background of the underlying surface. So it turns out that either do all these tricks of yours with huge power costs and a lot of problems (but without the Irbis), or use one Irbis (without tricks), which, with much less power, will have a detection range quite acceptable for an AWACS aircraft.
                  1. 0
                    17 May 2023 16: 35
                    Quote: Hexenmeister
                    use one "Irbis" (no frills)

                    It is better to use 2 antenna sheets from Irbis (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Н035_Irbis). As one character from Ray Bradbury said, "I love passive protoplasm, but I also love active protoplasm." To paraphrase, we can say that the passive HEADLIGHT can also be loved for its simplicity, because. it is simpler than the AFAR, and nevertheless, the reflected signals from two sheets of passive PARs, like those of the Irbis, can also be multiplied in the correlator and synthesized from two apertures one, but of a larger effective diameter, which will lead to an increase in the resolution of the telescope obtained by such synthesis .
  26. +1
    13 May 2023 15: 01
    To begin with, we must remember that the problem is solved by the complex, and not by the carrier (if memory does not fail, Timokhin repeatedly noticed this mistake).
    ---
    That is, the carrier is the last step in creating a complex "for the cost" (yes, the light AWACS complex should be created based on the criterion of the cost of equipment, and not start with the choice of carrier).
    We created a complex - we looked at what the minimum existing carrier it fits into (of course, taking into account the working time, which obviously exceeds the inter-flight maintenance time and a couple of hours to exit the patrol zone and return from it. That is, we need a carrier in a long-range modification). Oversized? In a free place we place rest places for reserve operators and a shift crew. Excess payload capacity due to fuel limitations? We are resolving with the design bureau the issue of placing an additional supply of fuel (including in "removable" tanks inside the fuselage volume).
    ====
    The idea of ​​​​on-board placement of complexes from fighters for a light AWACS aircraft seems to me very interesting. Is it worth taking a complex from the Su-34 as a base (it is more effective on the ground with equal capabilities for air targets and knows how to be network-centric), and place the radar several sets on board (given the limited time of active operation of the complex, this will make it possible to alternate sets AFAR them during patrol).
    PS
    But there is a carrier for this, and much more suitable than the Il-114 or Tu-204.
    These are "hovering on the ground" (and due to the long parking still requiring factory repairs, during which it is quite possible to modify them) "superjets" of the first series. Moreover, after the start of mass production of MS-21, they will be released from commercial traffic on foreign routes ....
    1. 0
      13 May 2023 20: 10
      There is no engine for Superjets hovering on the ground. PD-8 is not clear when it will be ready.
      1. +1
        14 May 2023 02: 28
        They already have a Sam-146 engine with an unused resource. The vast majority of "prismly" superjets do not fly for reasons far from engines ...
        1. 0
          14 May 2023 15: 42
          Tell me then, for what? For me, the exhausted resource of the engine as a whole and the failed check of the hot part can lead to the same result, this is an unreliable solution.
          1. 0
            16 May 2023 00: 49
            The first vehicles received by the AFL had problems with the SLE (later it was finalized). Aeroflot chose to land and later return the cars to the manufacturer. A few of them still don't fly.
            Interjet reviewed the route network and switched to a monopark of larger vehicles, the LSS were returned to the lessor (including due to problems with the foreign warehouse of spare parts). Emnip, at least 2 cars are still on the ground.
            Well, a few more cars have been landed due to the fact that they require improvements, which the operators stupidly scored on.
    2. +1
      13 May 2023 22: 39
      If the conversation is about “here and now”, then you need to use only industrial or ready-made solutions. Restrict the statement of the problem: for CBO.

      Then the choice of tools is reduced.
      1. Finally start using the A-50 / 50U without paying attention to the resource
      2. Use Tu-204 OH and other special options
      3. Drive Novella from the sailors to the NWO and use it (if there is any sense in it)
      4. Attach the radar station that exists (there were several options above, from aircraft to container or from air defense systems) to aircraft from storage of the required carrying capacity: IL-114 from Tajikistan, Tu-204 from storage, super-waiting, Boeing or Airbus "without registration", an -140 or an-148 which are. They still won’t be able to operate for a long time, but any of these options will pull their few years and probably any of them can take on, in addition to the radar, both energy and crew

      For me personally, an-140 or a superjet + container is the fastest solution.

      And in the process it will be clear what works and what does not. Options are suboptimal, costly, but fast.

      No one will give us such aircraft, it’s good if China throws something for stuffing drones to use them for reconnaissance like the Americans. Hang on orion to ...
      1. +2
        14 May 2023 12: 51
        1. The resource of all the remaining machines may not be enough for a protracted SVO. So my grandmother said in two.
        2. Tu-204 ON is an aircraft primarily for radio and radiation reconnaissance. Using it as an AWACS will not work with all the desire.
        3. From "Novella" there is a sense in searching for objects against the background of the sea (a very difficult task for a radar) and at a depth, while the search for air targets is commensurate with the capabilities of the radar proposed by the author. Moreover, this is the only complex in Russia with such capabilities and on carriers with a repeatedly extended resource. That is, the value of these machines for naval aviation exceeds their usefulness in the NWO zone.
        4. Containers, due to their small cross-section (one time smaller than the area of ​​the Su-35 and even more so the Su-34 antennas) and dimensions, will be much less effective than the antennas of the airborne radars of fighters. And with a limited time in active mode, you can fight by doubling the antenna systems and their alternate work when patrolling.
        As for the carriers, you can forget about the grounded Il-114 and An-140. Their restoration to airworthiness is impossible due to the lack of necessary units, and replacement with currently produced analogues requires re-certification (which is currently happening with the Il-114). With the An-148, the situation is not much better.

        So the best solution would be Tu-204/214 or Superjet (with landed Sukhoi the situation is much better) with conformal or assembled in a flat fairing above the fuselage antennas from fighter radars.

        Forget about drones - they are good as reconnaissance vehicles, but their potential as combat control systems is close to zero.
        1. 0
          14 May 2023 13: 52
          Nevertheless, the Ministry of Defense (VKS and Navy) has an-148 and an-140, which greatly simplifies the issue of certification.
          The same MO also has airborne radars in stock or available for order (taking into account annual production, this is about 50 pieces per year for Su, which means you can start doing this right now). Can be removed from decommissioned aircraft.

          The container may be the worst solution, but it has a big plus - it is a standalone device in its own case. Under it, you need to prepare a carrier with a pylon, a communication bus and apply power. All this can be done in the shortest possible time. True high-wingers are not very suitable for this, unfortunately.
    3. 0
      22 May 2023 12: 02
      "Moreover, after the start of mass production of the MS-21, they will begin to be released from commercial traffic on foreign routes ...." a medium-haul aircraft does not replace a regional aircraft
      1. 0
        13 June 2023 01: 52
        Now, part of the foreign routes of the SZh fly stupidly due to the fact that almost any medium-haul will be immediately arrested (because it has a double registration) - despite the almost half the capacity. According to some reports, this is more than a quarter of the flying park.
        Thus, with the advent of the MS-21, the SSG will be replaced by them much faster than on domestic flights (which can be “finished off” with re-registered watermelons and bobs for another decade, or even more). And it is quite obvious that some of these machines will simply be put under the fence (and not redirected to lightly loaded regional routes) - these are the ones that can be converted into "light AWACS aircraft" (including remotorized to PD-8, to by that time already actively mass-produced)
  27. 0
    13 May 2023 16: 09
    a-50s were pierced with a drone at the airfield, shells on high-rise buildings are useless from an attack on the Kremlin, cheap mass-produced drone fighters are needed. Spear-21 for the modernization of MiG-21 weighs 100 kg in the Orion UAV, you can already screw it up.
  28. 0
    13 May 2023 18: 48
    TU-154 probably not all of them went to non-ferrous metal, there should be dozens in storage. Revive, equip and in business.
    1. 0
      14 May 2023 12: 31
      A kerosene fighter with an operating time of 2-3 hours?
      Come on!
    2. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 54
      Tu204 (214) 20 pieces should be somewhere ... IL96 too ..
  29. 0
    13 May 2023 18: 55
    The IL-114-300 has not completed its certification, when it will end is unknown, hopes for serial production from 2024, but test flights have not yet begun. The engine received a type certificate, but not the car as a whole. There seem to be 3 boards in varying degrees of readiness, maybe they will quickly raise them into the sky.
    That is: a series from 2024. Adaptation of the carrier for AWACS - from 2025. At best, by 2030 there will be a relatively massive aircraft.
    So I would start with the Tu-214 ("if I were Shoigu", yes). All the same, no one except the military needs it, there is a backlog, and more AFAR / PFAR can be placed on it.
    But this project is not announced at all. And it seems to me that the MO continues to bet on the dead horse Premier from Vega and the Beria team. Interestingly, the people who made the decision on the Prime Minister are still sitting in place or not?
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 46
      There are Tu204 and 214 laid up, there are "arrested" A321 ..... do it - I don't want to.
    2. 0
      16 May 2023 01: 02
      There are big problems with the Tupolev design bureau.
      These guys in post-Tupopole times are accustomed to never making mistakes ("he who does nothing is not mistaken").
      And to force them to meet even a simple design change (and the implantation of a radar requires serious changes) - it’s easier to build a crystal bridge to America.
      Yes, and this carrier is redundant for the light AWACS complex (although it is more than good in range).
  30. +1
    13 May 2023 21: 26
    The question of resuming work on the Yak-44 is not worth it? And this is a direct analogue of Hokai.
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 51
      Problem No. 1 Aircraft, Problem No. 2 AWACS itself ...... why do we need all the problems at once? We quickly need a lot of AWACS. To do this, you need a serial board with the required energy and range, and a serial PFAR or AFAR .... and an on-board computer.
      from serial in the Russian Federation there are:
      1. SSZh-100
      2 Tu204(214)
      3. MS21 (will be)


      and serial radars: Su30SM and Su35 (with their on-board computers)
  31. +1
    13 May 2023 22: 21
    Question: why is a manned vehicle being considered as a promising AWACS aircraft?

    I see the main problem, which I would also like to discuss, not so much in the creation of a carrier and a detection system, but in timely communication to interested parties of information about what this system has discovered. In other words, there must be a secure, high-speed aircraft communication system with consumers. And, as practice has shown, we seem to have no more problems with such systems than with those listed in the article by a respected author.
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 44
      Do we have UAVs with 2x TV3-117 or 2x PS90?
  32. 0
    14 May 2023 06: 05
    We need a heavy drill drone and the same one for reconnaissance (optical, IR, RTR). All these huge muds are the last century. Well, we obviously don’t have 2-3 years. Not like the current war - it is not clear whether our state will survive by that time.
  33. 0
    14 May 2023 09: 09
    Indeed, they say that war is the engine of progress and development. Everyone knows and understands everything, but they are in suspended animation until the "rooster frying" pecks at the fifth point.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. 0
    15 May 2023 12: 29
    In addition to the problem of the availability of the aircraft themselves, reconnaissance equipment, it is also necessary to solve the problem of transmitting information from the aircraft to the ground, to the direct sighting devices of missiles, guns, or simply MANPADS operators. Do we have such a connection?
  36. exo
    0
    15 May 2023 13: 12
    It became ridiculous after the title. In Russia, almost no aircraft are built. Piece Tu-204s. We do not have platforms. And it is not expected.
    I don’t want to talk about the program of the updated IL-76 either. It’s enough to look at the number of cars produced. It’s better not to dream about new AWACS.
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 14: 11
      Again, I object IN FACT: such an AIRPLANE platform, suitable for the requirements voiced in the article and produced today in Russia, IS, and by design, it is precisely Russian. And it fits exactly in all technical and mechanical parameters. This is an amphibious aircraft of the Ministry of Emergency Situations Be-200! The machine is exceptionally durable and reliable, since, according to its main application, it starts / lands on water, takes water into a 20-ton tank - on the fly, touching the bottom of the water surface, flying equally well over land and sea. Etc. The issue of the engine for it has NOT been resolved EXACTLY TO THE SAME EXTENT that it has not been resolved - for both the IL-114 and the IL-112, since it is just the same engine! But even to solve this problem, NOTHING is needed, EXCEPT for the political will of the top leadership that was shown in practice! Since such an engine, proven over decades of flawless operation (it still flies on the remaining IL-18 (IL-20 - military version)! This is the engine of Nikolai Kuznetsov's design bureau NK-4.
      There are design and production forces ready to modernize this ideal engine a little: in the same place on the basis of the Samara Design Bureau and the University!
      https://argumenti.ru/society/2021/12/751121?ysclid=lhoqennwv2436739050
      The only thing that prevents the solution of all these problems in practice is the EVIL POLITICAL WILL, which is contrary to all that is good in Russia, and the top Chubais reformers who govern us continue to destroy the country.
      And Chernyshev’s engine design bureau / plant, contracted for engines for the Il-112/114 and their helicopter versions, will NEVER create them again - it has long been out of shape. As far as I remember, this topic was discussed in detail at the aviation industry forums 10-15 years ago, using specific examples. With even curses about this engine of theirs - from the former first chief designer of the Il-112.
      1. +1
        15 May 2023 14: 43
        No need to reinvent the wheel. There is a global trend of installing antennas on pass liners
      2. 0
        16 May 2023 16: 05
        Oh, well, do not make laugh (do not scare) the people. There was already a flying steam locomotive - in the old American comedy "The Great Race". They landed there in a large puddle of manure :)
  37. +1
    15 May 2023 14: 38
    Here a problem arises - the fact is that now we simply do not have a ready-made, mass-produced aircraft comparable in terms of performance characteristics (TTX) with the E-2C Hawkeye. Previously, An-26, An-72, An-140 aircraft could claim this role, the choice of which, for obvious reasons, is impossible.


    If we take it in fact, then we now have only one production aircraft - SSZh100, and it is also at the exit from PD8. this is where you need to start. A lot of modern AWACS are made on the basis of business jets ....
    1. 0
      15 May 2023 20: 28
      Until 2022, the NAF had about 800 Western-made passenger aircraft leased and registered abroad (mainly Boeing and Airbus), now, due to sanctions and re-registration problems, there are difficulties with their operation as passenger ships, it seems that among this fleet you can select individual aircraft and convert them into AWACS
      1. 0
        16 May 2023 01: 20
        The placement of the radar (it does not matter whether it is in the "mushroom", in the "crest" or comfortable on the sides of the fuselage) is an intervention in the design and a change in aerodynamics.
        It is not possible for us to obtain design documentation and aerodynamic calculations for "sanctioned" Airbuses and Boeings in order to safely intervene in the design - so you should not rely on them.
        The choice remains small - SSZh and Tu-204/214 from among the "mundane". At the same time, it will be much easier to negotiate with the Sukhovites than with the Tupolevites (those who ate the dog "if something didn't work out").
  38. 0
    16 May 2023 14: 19
    They forgot the main thing - the leadership that is able to understand the problem, solve the problem, allocate resources, coordinate various enterprises.
    In the meantime, the nasir of the leadership is something like this - why the hell to strain, we will buy everything in China!
    1. 0
      16 May 2023 14: 36
      Quote: ailcat
      The placement of the radar (it does not matter whether it is in the "mushroom", in the "crest" or comfortable on the sides of the fuselage) is an intervention in the design and a change in aerodynamics.
      It is not possible for us to obtain design documentation and aerodynamic calculations for "sanctioned" Airbuses and Boeings in order to safely intervene in the design - so you should not rely on them.

      In fact, in fact (with rare exceptions) all AWACS aircraft in the world are alterations, either passenger or transport, and installing a "mushroom" or other antenna without a significant deterioration in flight performance is not a problem.
      1. 0
        19 May 2023 04: 23
        You are joking now, I hope?
        Pay attention to the horror that the tail of the Embraer turned into after the installation of the dorsal radar (I attach the photo at the end). And still, the directional stability of the aircraft remained worse than that of the "non-locator" version, and the takeoff and landing characteristics deteriorated.
        And then take a look at Avax for Australia (based on 737-700). And you will be surprised how much the design of the aircraft has undergone changes (it would not be a strong exaggeration to say that the fuselage compartment with the antenna was made anew).
        PS
        If you look closely at the H035 locator, you will notice that between the antenna field and the electronic units there are blocks and rather big bundles of cables that will have to be brought inside the fuselage. And also to strengthen the frames for attaching the pylons. And also to strengthen the floor and the upper part of the fuselage for attaching racks with equipment that requires close proximity to the antennas. And ideally, additional tanks would be made according to the SBJ scheme, which would require refinement of the center section and fuselage in the trunk area ...

  39. 0
    16 May 2023 16: 00
    I liked the headline "quickly, a lot, inexpensively."
    I remembered the production of IL28. But ... "there are no others, and those are far away"
  40. 0
    16 May 2023 19: 54
    "... The development of the Il-112V aircraft was suspended, although it was initially assumed that the contract for the first batch of 35 Il-112V aircraft would be signed back in 2017. There is a possibility that the project can be resumed ..."
    It is difficult to say what will happen to the station, but the Il-112 project will definitely be resumed, there should be no doubt, Russia simply has no choice. This aircraft is needed not only for AWACS for the Russian Air Force.
    The Tu-204/214 is very doubtful, since the aircraft is needed to replace civilian Boeings and Arbuzov, and the Il-114-300, indeed, just asks for the AWACS aircraft program for the Russian Air Force: there is a base machine, there is production capacity, the result is relatively inexpensive, relatively fast and relatively reliable.
  41. 0
    17 May 2023 02: 20
    Muchas palabrad..y poco hecho..esto se necesita para "ayer"...los awacs..se necesitan ya!!!!!!!
  42. +2
    17 May 2023 08: 38
    Quote from Viktior Vinland
    if, instead of one aircraft, three or four stratospheric balloons are raised at a given place and the necessary antennas and emitters are stretched on them? After all, then you get a huge telescope.
    Your project of placing radars on stratospheric balloons and combining them into one huge telescope is very tempting. True, there are implementation difficulties associated with the fact that stratostats are almost uncontrollable in flight. The resolution from synthesized radar apertures placed on several balloons will increase only in the horizontal plane, because all balloons will be approximately in the same plane, located at an altitude of ~30 km.
    To increase the resolution also in the vertical plane, it is possible to add at least one radar located in near-Earth orbit to the radar grouping on balloons and synthesize the apertures of all the mentioned (aerostatic and space) radars. Then it will be possible to see the whole of Ukraine, the smallest detail of every car and every soldier, everything is in full view. By changing the picture of Ukraine received from such a telescope, motion sensors will record the slightest movements of military equipment and personnel. But to implement this plan, considerable investments are needed in the development of supercomputers (for the rapid processing of large amounts of data), microelectronics, space and aviation technology, airship building ..
  43. 0
    17 May 2023 10: 11
    What is the point of placing fighter radars at the command post? The command post radars must "see" farther and more than the airborne stations of fighters, which have already reached such a stage of development that the fighters have become "directors of themselves."

    In any case, you can’t do such a thing “on your knee” and quickly.
  44. +2
    17 May 2023 13: 15
    With the lack or absence of a wide range of modern means and systems in the army, there is still a stutter - we will reach Berlin, the English Channel ...
    Who will go, what will they go with?
    Sofa warriors, like "can we repeat"?
    Everything is being raked out of the Soviet "bins".
    And if you have to face the entire NATO military machine, what can you count on - a nuclear club?
  45. aba
    +1
    17 May 2023 15: 08
    Wherever you throw, everywhere a wedge!
    Are there any areas where ours, if not ahead, then at least not in the deep rearguard!?
    1. 0
      22 May 2023 22: 47
      Are there any areas where ours, if not ahead

      Export from Russia of natural resources and capital from the sale of these resources ....
  46. +1
    17 May 2023 17: 37
    In all such discussions, I always wonder why this is of concern to ordinary citizens, but it is absolutely not of interest to those who are appointed by the state to this work. With a salary of two or three orders of magnitude more. Maybe the salary gets in the way?
  47. -2
    20 May 2023 11: 19
    - the first option is to bring the Il-112V aircraft to mind, especially since, apparently, this project was in a fairly high degree of readiness;

    Is this the one that killed the crew of honored aces with fire? Any Soviet aircraft of the eighties of the last century has a much better airframe than any modern crooked craft. Because Soviet aircraft manufacturers designed aircraft, and did not solve the tasks that modern design bureaus solve in the first place. There is absolutely no time for airplanes at all.
    So an excellent aircraft would have come out of a glider of the last century and modern drives and avionics. Well, that's right, dreams ...
  48. 0
    22 May 2023 10: 50
    If you use the Irbis or Belka "fighter" radars with the Su-35 and Su-57, then you need to initially put them on unmanned platforms capable of circling over a given area for several days and transmit all the necessary data ...
  49. -1
    22 May 2023 11: 52
    More "goods" good and different! There are a lot of "TALKERS" on the issue of AWACS aircraft. It seems that there are difficulties with the formation of TK on the part of the RF Ministry of Defense (there are no professionals left - they have already died or retired) ....
  50. 0
    23 May 2023 04: 52
    The author is right, we need massive Hokai. PD-8V on the way. This engine is quite suitable for the Russian Hokai
  51. 0
    20 June 2023 19: 54
    A very interesting discussion article. It’s like two pensioners discussing what should be taken: investment coins or gold bars. And they subsist from kefir to pasta.
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. +2
    1 September 2023 09: 24
    How much pathos and promises - promise! “AWACS for the Russian Air Force: fast, a lot, inexpensive” - May 13, 2023 with many victims. The most important factor determining the effectiveness of the Air Force in fulfilling its tasks of seizing air supremacy is the presence of AWACS and U aircraft "(https://topwar.ru/216706-samolety-drloiu-dlja-vvs-rf-bystro-mnogo-nedorogo.html ) The A-100 was developed by the Vega Concern in cooperation with the Radio Communications Research Institute. In accordance with the 2013 state contract. tests of the A-100 began on 18.11. 2017 And already on 4.04.2019/100/76, Izvestia announced the first public demonstration of the AWACS and U-A-90 Premier aircraft in the sky over Moscow on Victory Day .. The reconnaissance aircraft was made on the basis of heavy military transport Il -2021MD-100A and has already received the respectful nickname "The All-Seeing Eye" in the army. In February 100, Rostec announced an achievement - the A-2021 Premier aircraft will receive protective glass with increased light transmission. And the A-50 Premier aircraft made its first flight with the radar equipment turned on. In October 100, Gen. Kronstadt designer N. Dolzhenkov spoke about the development of a new drone. The device is an analogue of the A-30 aircraft. The beginning of the SVO showed the complete absence of the A-2022 at the front. On March 100, XNUMX, Shoigu assessed the Premier aircraft and said that the A-XNUMX would provide a base for the modernization of AWACS systems.
    18 most difficult months of the NWO have already passed, the “godfathers” from Rostec showed the MO configuration of three fingers. But notice what boastful promises are: “The radar is capable of tracking up to 300 targets at a distance of 650 km and controlling 30 fighters. The plane can be in the air for up to six hours at a distance of 1000 km from its base. And where did the Premieres and the promised A-50 drones get lost?
  54. -1
    19 September 2023 12: 25
    The author offers very sound and sensible ideas.
  55. 0
    12 October 2023 09: 23
    There is a problem with airplanes as such. What is there to clarify about AWACS? Well, frankly speaking, the problem is with the country as a whole. 30 years of snatching and theft, not even from profit, but from loss, are making their presence felt. And at the last stage, the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance got involved. Like in the movie: “It’s okay, I’m falling!”